Friday, February 15, 2008

muslims protest "wearily" against Danish cartoons

Pity the poor victimized Danish media, who now are deprived of victimhood itself - the expected muslim protest against their provcation of reprinting the offensive Muhammad SAW cartoons was not exactly the rabid violent mob they seemed to be hoping for:

Many said they simply could not understand the motive unless it was hatred for Islam.

But the overwhelming mood was not so much anger but weary resignation; a sense that they have been through this crisis once before and nothing has been learnt.

Some Danish Muslims said they felt the problem was not the Danish people who were, if not well informed about Islam, at least generally liberal.

Instead, they pointed the finger of blame at the Danish media, saying it had stirred controversy instead of trying to help mend community relations.

Why, they sound like civic-minded reasonable people who just want to get along and would appreciate not being slagged off all the time. Go figure.

Still, I think some applause for Jyllands-Posten, true heroes of the Enlightenment and brave warriors for selective speech, is in order.


  1. The cartoons were not racist, they did not promote hatred - rather they broke a religious law.

    Tolerance requires that you do not have the right to impose your religious laws on people who are not members of your religion.

    So rather than "pity" papers who stood up for the right to freedom of speech, a western invention sure, but one worth preserving, we should celebrate that the threat to that freedom is gone. We should all celebrate that European Muslims are finally coming to understand that freedom of speech is a right in the west that they can not deny.

    In the west you have individual rights, not "community" rights - that's just another way of trying to claim authority that democracy won't allow. There was no reason to "mend community relations" there was a reason for Muslims to grow up and learn about civil rights, like freedom of speech.

  2. Tolerance requires that you do not have the right to impose your religious laws on people who are not members of your religion.

    yes, I quite agree, but that isnt "tolerance", its simply freedom.

  3. i will delete any comment of yours that insults the Prophet

    Of course, I expect that. Insults to the prophet can not be tolerated in Islam, precisely for the reason that you deleted.

    But where religion can not be insulted there can be no intellect, there can be no science, there can be no progress.

    You can not have an education that teaches young people to think critically if you can not insult religion.

    The right to put religion in it's place is a fundamental right because it has always been sorely needed.

    Religion is obsolete thought, obsolete philosophy, obsolete science.

    We need to hold on to it because we are all children at times, and we all face death alone. But sometimes we are adults as well.

  4. One more point. Religion is a system that intends to control people for the gain of it's leaders. It has been deliberately designed to deprive men of their reason so that they can turn them into tools of powerful con men.

    Religion is important an example of brainwashing. And it is a great education for people learn to see that side of religion as well.

    If one can learn to avoid being manipulated by the religious leaders of the past, then one can learn to maintain one's freedom in the present.

  5. Oper, I could go line by line through your misunderstand of what I wrote, your sophistry and your misuse of words, but I don't have the enthusiasm for wasting time.

    Instead I'll just address one point, the worth of Religion in modern science as evidenced in this debate

    And I quote:

    Following are excerpts from an Iraqi TV debate on whether the earth is flat, which aired on Al-Fayhaa TV on October 31, 2007.

    Fadhel Al-Sa'd, (Iraqi "researcher" on astronomy [scare quotes mine]) : The Koranic verse that I have just recited – "The breadth of Paradise is as the breadth of the heavens and earth" – attests to the fact that the Earth is flat.


    Iraqi physicist 'Aboud Al-Taei: If the Earth is not round, what shape does it have? I have proof today, as a result of scientific development – using satellites, modern devices, and spaceships... In particular, considering the spaceships and space shuttles that constantly circle the Earth, and some have left Earth for the solar system... The photographs they took prove that the Earth is round.


    When you watch a ship sailing towards the shore, all you see at first is the mast. Then you see the ship's bow, and eventually the entire ship.


    Fadhel Al-Sa'd: When you stand on the beach and you look into the distance, everything you see is in the visible distance. In the blurred distance, you cannot see a thing. Later on, as the ship gets closer to the shore and the harbor, you see its upper part. How do you see it? The eye, as I have said... So far, no doctor has succeeded in understanding how the eye works. How come you see things as round when they are in the blurred distance, but when they get within visible distance, you see them as straight? It happens the same way. When we stand on the ground, we are close to it. Therefore, we see with only half of the eye. If we split the iris into half, we see with the upper half things that are far, and with the lower half things that are near.


    In 1999, there was a full solar eclipse. We went to Mosul, and over there we climbed to Mar Matti Monastery, the altitude of which is 3,600 feet.

    The sun began to disappear slowly behind the moon. This is because the moon is half the size of the sun. The moon's diameter is 1,200,000 km, while that of the sun is 2,400,000 km.


    'Aboud Al-Taei: The figures he mentioned regarding the size of the moon... By means of scientific methods, and physical and astronomical principles, scientists have managed to determine the mass of the moon. It is one-sixth the mass of the Earth. This explains the gravity on the moon, which was determined by the astronauts who reached the surface of the moon. They proved that the moon is round. Gravity was less there. It was six times less than the gravity on the Earth, which is why the weight of things is one-sixth there.


    Interviewer: Lunar and solar eclipses, sunset and sunrise, and the changing of seasons – how would you explain all these phenomena, if the Earth is not round, as you claim?

    Fadhel Al-Sa'd: The sun circles the Earth because it is smaller than the Earth, as is evident in Koranic verses.


    Have you ever seen how the sun moves? I have seen the sun moving. The sun makes one move every 24 hours.


    What I say is based on Koranic science. He bases his arguments on the kind of science that I reject categorically – the modern science that they teach in schools. This science is a heretic innovation that has no confirmation in the Koran. No verse in the Koran indicates that the Earth is round or that it rotates. Anything that has no indication in the Koran is false.

  6. I could just as easily used "creation science" as the example.

    In every field where mankind has progressed and found reasonable answers, or scientific truth, we did it by first side-stepping religion, and then when we gained a little freedom, bulldozing it out of the way.

    Religion is about as much help in understanding the world or making useful plans as Alzheimer's is.

    And some religion is even poisonous to families, human relationships, freedom, economics, peace and international relations.

    Go rationality!

  7. Oper, half of your arguments rest on being (or pretending to be) too stupid to understand what I actually meant.

    Hint, that's not an effective rhetorical technique, and a sure sign of someone who couldn't possibly argue in good faith - as I said, a waste of time.