tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5561923483541812971.post4999076379573838217..comments2023-07-07T04:21:56.577-07:00Comments on azizhp: mixed messagesAziz P.http://www.blogger.com/profile/11825546047253660903noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5561923483541812971.post-74894414820968197192005-01-26T21:17:00.000-08:002005-01-26T21:17:00.000-08:00By the way I do agree with Aziz that such a change...By the way I do agree with Aziz that such a change of thinking, if sincere, would be momentus and we should shout it from the rooftops.<br><br>Perhaps there is some difference between the permanence of position in unfree societies that we should take into account. Perhaps his <i>previous</i> opinion wasn't sincerely held either, or perhap Middle Easterners live in such a different culture that they don't ask the questions we'd ask ie. "does the man mean it?"<br><br>But I must say I perfectly understand that most Americans' response to this would be so sceptical that they wouldn't even mention it.Joshua Scholarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07309678916159018655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5561923483541812971.post-85543450478278251522005-01-26T21:00:00.000-08:002005-01-26T21:00:00.000-08:00That first sentence should read:By the way I feel ...That first sentence should read:<br>By the way I feel uncomfortable saying that I think someone is making public statements he doesn't believe because he (or his family?) are under duress and then following that with "even censorship that suppresses hatred and recruitement for terror <i>is a good thing</i>.<br><br>And I wrote "it" instead of "if" in third sentence ie it should read "if the person changed his mind..."Joshua Scholarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07309678916159018655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5561923483541812971.post-8145892646124075862005-01-26T20:50:00.000-08:002005-01-26T20:50:00.000-08:00By the way I feel uncomfortable saying that I thin...By the way I feel uncomfortable saying that I think someone is making public statements he doesn't believe because he (or his family?) are under duress and then following that with "even censorship that suppresses hatred and recruitement for terror."<br><br>The problem is that if you follow the links to "Abd Al-Rahman Al-Sudayyis" previous speeches you'll note that his speeches have been full of incitement to hatred and violence of such an extreme nature that giving such a speech in Canada, or anywhere in Europe would likely land him in jail under hate speech laws.<br><br>I can't judge for sure what caused his change of rhetoric, but (as in other cases) when a person changes so completely, it the person changed his mind through some natural process of growth, one would find him explicitely explaining to others how he found his change of heart, why he was wrong before and why they should follow him in his growth. <br><br>-- but when change of hearts are ignored in the rhetoric and treated as though there was no arguement for the previous point of view / a flip rather than a conversion, it's my reading that the speaker is being forced and doesn not wish to convince those who followed him before to follow him through his change...<br><br>But anyway, I want to get back to the point that such speech is illegal in most countries, even the United States with our extreme 1st amendment. Thus, one could argue, that legal threats or coersion that inspires such public recantations isn't necessarily illegitimate. Now I don't know if it was a threat made by an official that caused the man's change, but I want to say that one can argue with the Saudi legal system, it's arbitrariness and it's harshness, but that doesn't mean that every threat made by a representitive of the Saudi is unjust.Joshua Scholarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07309678916159018655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5561923483541812971.post-76307758029582522682005-01-26T14:49:00.000-08:002005-01-26T14:49:00.000-08:00As salaamu 'alaykum Aziz,I basically agree wit...As salaamu 'alaykum Aziz,<br><br>I basically agree with your argument in this post, although I would quibble with some of the statements you make along the way.<br><br>Only one really demands being mentioned and that is the implication if not direct statement that anti-Jewish attitudes of Sudais would come from Sayyid Qutb. While I don't know the biography of Sudais, as you know, the particular school of thought he follows is often quite hostile to Sayyid Qutb, and in no event does it take him as a teacher or someone who would be studied.<br><br>So, unless there is some evidence that I am missing, I think to suggest that Qutb is the source of any of Sudais' opinions would be quite difficult to imagine, especially for something like anti-Jewish views, for which there is a multitude of other more likely sources he could be taking from.<br><br>On a more positive note, the blog is coming inshAllaah, it's moved from a matter of if? to when? I definitely look forward to engaging with you, but I have to warn you I don't really think what I have to say will be helpful to your project of trying to remake Islam in some way to support western democracy. You've only given small hints of what you are going for, so it's likely I don't really understand what you are hoping to do.<br><br>In any event, I guess that's what we'll find out in the discussion.<br><br>Salaam.Abu Noorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01472659204293587066noreply@blogger.com